Curse

*lemming* · Oct 06, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Not really, Since any decent sin will spam the build as a 1,2,3,4 spike you only need to fire an interrupt in between. Its the same concept with interupting sin attack combo's. Of course you dont know which skill it is your interupting, you just need to know that they are using one almost 100% of the time during their combo, and any interuption in between means they wont be able to finish. Ive dshotted so many DA'rs since it became popular its not even funny.

Pretty sure decent sins are the ones that don't queue up skills.

cce · Oct 06, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

1. MoR is very useful for mesmers who want to cross over and use fire, curses, or another class's skills. It actually brings diversity to build and opens gameplay opportunities.

2. GoLE basically too powerful across the board, especially if you have high energy storage. Compared to other energy techniques (say inspiration skills for mesmers that are not even in the primary class) it's a no-brainer.

The real problem here is passive defense, it's just boring.

Thomas.knbk · Oct 06, 2007, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

1. MoR is very useful for mesmers who want to cross over and use fire, curses, or another class's skills. It actually brings diversity to build and opens gameplay opportunities.

Actually it's pretty useful for mesmers who think a 12 sec recharge on diversion is too long, and want to use WaM

Vaga · Oct 06, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

1. MoR is very useful for mesmers who want to cross over and use fire, curses, or another class's skills. It actually brings diversity to build and opens gameplay opportunities.

What the hell are you talking about? The only skill from another class MoR mesmers bring is ward melee which is imba on a mes with mor.

Riotgear · Oct 06, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

What the hell are you talking about? The only skill from another class MoR mesmers bring is ward melee which is imba on a mes with mor.

PEW PEW!!

Lord Sojar · Oct 07, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Nerf this.

I think that wouldn't require much work, just turn off the cooling in the data centers again, but this time, don't turn it back on.

Ok, but seriously...

I think Augury of Death is still imba. Tone down all the FotM crap that plagues the meta, and bring up some skills that see little to no play. Mark of Protection? Umm, yeh.....amity? Keystone Signet? Enchanters Conundrum? Rather then thinking of nerfing skills into an unplayable state, make skills that just can't be used actually useful.

Shmanka · Oct 07, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

I think Augury of Death is still imba. Tone down all the FotM crap that plagues the meta, and bring up some skills that see little to no play. Mark of Protection? Umm, yeh.....amity? Keystone Signet? Enchanters Conundrum? Rather then thinking of nerfing skills into an unplayable state, make skills that just can't be used actually useful.

Completely debatable, I don't think from a personal perspective that buffing unused skills will make the overpowered ones in the metagame any more balanced. EX: all the transfer condition skills on the necro line were buffed(alot) and you still see DA Paragons, etc etc.

You need to balance what is being abused, then buff other skills.

Riotgear · Oct 07, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

bring up some skills that see little to no play. Mark of Protection? Umm, yeh.....amity? Keystone Signet? Enchanters Conundrum? Rather then thinking of nerfing skills into an unplayable state, make skills that just can't be used actually useful.

Some skills just utterly fail and are only going to cause problems if they become viable. The first two are nice examples: Mark can be completely countered by not attacking and switching targets when you see one of the most obvious icons in the game pop up. Buff the shit out of it and it'll still be worse than Shield of Regen, at least SoR makes them hard to kill and heals them WITHOUT depending on morons attacking them.

Amity = Poor man's Blinding Surge. The difference is that no one wants to run Blinding Surge on a Monk.

Discord is an example of what happens when mindless "everything must be playable" buffing takes over, you just get broken skills being viable and a broken meta to follow suit.

Ironically, Augury of Death, a skill that fits perfectly into your suggestion, was such a skill: Completely useless, then they change the mechanics, but it's still not used what it was designed for, it's just a DW with an inconvenient teleport now.

Vaga · Oct 07, 2007, 09:25 AM // 09:25

The key thing to remember when buffing a skill so it's "playable" is whether the skill actually takes skill to use or it's effectiveness increases the more skilled the player is. For example it takes skill to black someone out at the right time so that it actually achieves something, and it takes skill to use bulls strike well. Compare this to conjure phantasm or reckless haste and it doesn't matter who casts the spell they will be just as effective.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 07, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Amity = Poor man's Blinding Surge. The difference is that no one wants to run Blinding Surge on a Monk.

Are you kidding? Do you remember when blinding surge was 5 energy? Everyone ran it (at least in RA/TA), from assassins, to eles, to monks, to mesmers. I had some great times running a bsurge monk.

But besides that, I agree with your post. People who think that we can fix balance by buffing are flat-out wrong. First you have to pull down the overpowered stuff, make a balanced game (in which you might need to buff some stuff that have good concepts). Only after that can you (carefully) buff the more esoteric stuff to see how/if it fits in.

skarkees · Oct 07, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Totaly agree with The Leet Panda.

Thomas.knbk · Oct 07, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Are you kidding? Do you remember when blinding surge was 5 energy? Everyone ran it (at least in RA/TA), from assassins, to eles, to monks, to mesmers. I had some great times running a bsurge monk.

But besides that, I agree with your post. People who think that we can fix balance by buffing are flat-out wrong. First you have to pull down the overpowered stuff, make a balanced game (in which you might need to buff some stuff that have good concepts). Only after that can you (carefully) buff the more esoteric stuff to see how/if it fits in.

Amity is nothing like Bsurge though. As long as it has that stupid dmg clause and that stupid recharge it's pretty unusable. Did I mention hex removal > you?

On a side note, Shattering Assault > SoD?

Riotgear · Oct 07, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Are you kidding? Do you remember when blinding surge was 5 energy? Everyone ran it (at least in RA/TA), from assassins, to eles, to monks, to mesmers. I had some great times running a bsurge monk.

I'm trying to show why it would be kind of crap if it were just buffed into the point of being balanced. 5e Blinding Surge was no such thing.

Quote:

On a side note, Shattering Assault > SoD?

The new Shattering Assault builds remind me of Grenth. I'm somewhat worried where it's going to take things once blockway is dissolved, since it already lets you train people through prot.

Legendary Shiz · Oct 07, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Are you kidding? Do you remember when blinding surge was 5 energy? Everyone ran it (at least in RA/TA), from assassins, to eles, to monks, to mesmers. I had some great times running a bsurge monk.

Agreed, one of my all time favorite builds was a bsurge dom mes.

twicky_kid · Oct 07, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

On a side note, Shattering Assault > SoD?

Yes, much better.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 07, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I'm trying to show why it would be kind of crap if it were just buffed into the point of being balanced. 5e Blinding Surge was no such thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Amity is nothing like Bsurge though. As long as it has that stupid dmg clause and that stupid recharge it's pretty unusable. Did I mention hex removal > you?

I know. I just wanted to point out that the fact that noone wants to run Bsurge on a monk was wrong. And because I loved running Bsurge on everything so much, so many good times.

But also, when we start seeing shattering assault sins with sight beyond sight, that's when we should really start getting scared. Especially since they already have wild blow, so they don't need to choose between unblockable hits that remove conditions and blind immunity. They are a bit easier to shut down with a good ranger though.

moko · Oct 07, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

i wish i would've used bsurge on my monk when it was 5e-.

/sigh, never came around it

the skill was just that good..

Thomas.knbk · Oct 07, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

But also, when we start seeing shattering assault sins with sight beyond sight, that's when we should really start getting scared.

Assassin's Remedy removes a condition before you hit. They're already pretty much immune to blind.

Symbol · Oct 07, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Assault enchantments is potentially scarier than shattering assault IMO. I saw HaND running a two AE sin frontline and they just rolled things. It was pretty gross.

Shattering's retarded damage mechanic means that you're tied to an inflexible attribute split (16 DM, 13 CS) because each missing point in DM lowers your damage so much, and SA's damage will still suck against armored targets.

I guess you could have someone else put SoH or JI on you to compensate, but it doesn't seem worth it.

I think Assault is a better designed skill anyway. With Shattering you use it if it's available and you have the energy, with Assault there's at least the trade-off between spamming it after you land a dual or comboing again, depending on circumstances.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 08, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Assault Enchantments is terrible compared to Shattering. The enchantment removal part of Shattering is really just a bonus that removes Spirit Bond/SoA. The thing that makes a Shattering sin scary is that it's an unblockable, unblindable, unprottable combo with a 4 second recharge. You could get rid of the enchantment removal on that bar entirely and it would still be a perfectly viable way to kill people, though somewhat less effective at training a single target.

While forcing block out of the meta is attractive right now, making the sins unblindable via Assassin's remedy feels too good. Change the way Remedy works and give the Shatter combo a 6-8s recharge, and the build will go from "unfair" to just decent.